Think About "Space". Ken Kagami x Masanao Hirayama x Joji Nakamura
An artist's idea of a good ma and a bad ma.
Published 4 years agoThis articleDo you remember the This article is the second part of the series. Together with contemporary artists Ken Kagami, Masanao Hirayama, and Joji Nakamura, we discussed the concept of "pause. The conversation among the three was not a simple one, and took an unexpected turn. What answers did they come up with?
Born in 1974. Born in Tokyo. He has released drawings, sculptures, and other works, and has participated in numerous art exhibitions both in Japan and abroad. He also actively collaborates with apparel brands, and his own "Strange Store" in Daikanyama offers T-shirts and other goods of his own creation.
Instagram:@kenkagami kenkagamiart.blogspot.jp
Middle: Masanao Hirayama
Born in 1976. Born in Hyogo Prefecture. Based in Tokyo, he works in painting, drawing, performance, etc. In addition to solo exhibitions of his own work, he also participates in group exhibitions. In addition to solo exhibitions of his own work, he also participates in group exhibitions and publishes a zine.
Instagram:@masanaohirayama www.himaa.cc
Left: Joji Nakamura
Born in 1974. While based on his activities as a painter, he also organizes projects and group exhibitions with various artists. He also manages a book label, K.M.L. BOOK.
Instagram:@joji_nakamura
Artists with good spacing create unique works.
This is the first time in four years that this trilogy has been held with these members.
KagaemiLast time we talked about line drawings. This time, the theme is "pause," so I think we're going to go off on a tangent (laughs). (laughs) It's a sensory issue.
flatlandOr derailed and never came back....
KagaemiI might have gone in the opposite direction (laughs).
flatlandWe need to make sure that the time between the two doesn't go bad.
NakamuraYou just want to say, "The time is bad." (Laughs.) Right?
KagaemiPause is difficult, isn't it?
What do you mean by the theme of "pause" this time?
KagaemiIn the case of art, the margins of a work of art and the space in which it is exhibited are also "pauses". The same is true of the pause in conversation, tempo, and the sense of distance in human relationships. I think that pauses are very important in life, especially for artists like us.
There are "pauses" in many places.
KagaemiWhen I draw, I try to be very conscious of pauses.
Do you mean the tempo of the drawing?
KagaemiYes. In my case, I try not to spend too much time on my work, and I feel the same way about Joji's work. I think the fact that Hima-kun doesn't bring his new work with him even though he has to work is also a unique characteristic of his.
all of usLOL!
KagaemiIn short, each artist has his/her own unique pause. So, a good work has a kind of pause.
flatlandThere's something crisp about it.
KagaemiYes, yes! This work is interesting! I feel that the author must have a good pause. I also feel that the author must have a good pause.
A person with good timing seems to have confidence. On the other hand, people who lack confidence seem to be hesitant and slow.
KagaemiThat may be so. For example, when I see a young person's work, I say, "That's interesting! Why don't you exhibit it next time? If I see a young person's work and say, "That's interesting! If they are not confident, the conversation will move forward smoothly, but if they are not confident, they will hesitate.
I'm not going to be able to hold a conversation.
flatlandPeople with good pauses can hold their own without talking.
KagaemiHima, you just said that while imagining a pretty girl, didn't you?
all of usLOL!
KagaemiIn fact, the "pause" is very important in the installation of artworks, and the quality of the work depends on how the space is used.
flatlandEven how many artworks are exhibited in a limited space will change how you use the space between them.
If you are holding an exhibition, do you make the artwork to fit the venue? Or do you bring a pre-completed work to balance it out?
KagaemiBasically, I think it will be the latter, but once I have decided on an exhibition, I always make a preliminary inspection of the venue. For overseas exhibitions, I look at drawings and think about it while looking at photos of the space. I guess that's basically how it works.
flatlandAs for exhibitions, I think it is coolest to do something orthodox. For example, if you have a wall, you can hang a single work of art on it.
KagaemiThat is the simplest and most difficult part. Everyone is doing it, and it's a game of how to make it look different.
flatlandUltimately, it comes down to the strength of the work, you know.
KagaemiJoji, what do you do when you create a piece of work? You seem to have a very abstract style, so it seems difficult to grasp the timing of completion.
NakamuraThat's when pauses may become important. While creating a work, you can't help but think, "Oh, here it comes! I end my work there. That's where I end my work.
Does the time it takes to come down vary depending on the work?
NakamuraBecause of the size, the larger the size, the longer it takes, but it's usually about 20 to 30 minutes.
KagaemiSomeone beside me, "Yes, that's where it ends!" but it's hard to figure out that timing by yourself.
NakamuraYes, that's why pauses are important. I like a work that is a bit out of place while looking at the whole picture.
KagaemiWhen I see a work and it is too good, I sometimes laugh at it. I find works that are somewhat goofy and silly more interesting than such works.
NakamuraYou can see the writer's habits, or rather, "Hmm? What is this? I like to see the artist's habits. In that sense, I myself may be conscious of how to take the time. It is not good to be too close, and it is not good to be too far apart.
You mentioned that it takes about 20 to 30 minutes for each piece, can you paint many pieces in a day?
NakamuraI can paint at all. As long as I have a canvas (laughs).
KagaemiBut if you get bored, it's over (laughs).
flatlandMaybe it's a matter of concentration there.
KagaemiSome of them I reject immediately after drawing. If the pen goes over the line, I immediately throw it away. It's been that way since I was a child. I used to throw away Gundam plastic models as soon as I made a mistake in making them (laughs). I think of myself as an impatient person. That's why I create my works quickly.
Perhaps it is Kagami's ability to switch between the two that allows her to do so so quickly.
KagaemiMaybe so. Maybe I'm not good at taking my time.
flatlandIt's like when you get horny, you start working on it.
KagaemiYes, I want to draw! I draw as soon as I feel like it.
flatlandSometimes I get horny in a different way when I'm drawing.
KagaemiWhat are you talking about, Hima? I assure you, Joji and I are not like that!
all of usLOL!
When you are conscious of the good between, the between becomes bad.
You mentioned earlier that "pauses" are important in human relationships.
KagaemiIt might be easier to give examples of bad timing than good timing. For example, someone calling you only when you are walking outside, or someone coming only when the store is closed.
flatlandI also felt the bad timing when I went out to eat pork cutlet the other day. And that was two days in a row. I ordered a beer before my meal, but it never came. When the pork cutlets were served, I said, "I ordered beer, too," but they seemed to have forgotten about it. The next day, I ordered beer and pork cutlets at the same restaurant, but they forgot to bring beer again.
KagaemiMaybe that was actually intentional, you know? Or maybe they thought you were underage.
flatlandThat is indeed not true (laughs)! After that, it became difficult for me to go to that restaurant. The taste was good, but....
In light of those bad examples, are you consciously trying to improve the spacing?
KagaemiI don't think I do that. I don't think I do that because I think pauses are something that naturally occur. Whether it is good or bad is only the result.
NakamuraMaybe that kind of thing is just chemistry. Maybe the reason I feel good is because we are on the same wavelength. After all, even if you think the relationship is bad, it is possible that it is good for someone else. There is no right answer to the relationship.
I see.
NakamuraIf I am aware of the bad timing, I can control myself from drifting in that direction rather than being conscious of the good timing.
KagaemiThere are times when I notice that my pauses are getting worse. I speak when the other person is about to speak. Also, when I am with my daughter and an idea comes to me and I try to give it shape, she gets angry with me (laughs). (Laughs.) Then my wife says to me, "What are you doing? (laughs).
NakamuraIt's all going to get worse in between, isn't it?
We want to value individuality over technology.
What do you think of the "in-between" between Mr. Nakamura and Ms. Hirayama?
KagaemiThey both have completely different styles, but what they have in common is that their works are very clear. I think the way they take pauses is somewhat similar.
flatlandI think our styles may be similar in that we draw quickly rather than taking the time to work on a piece of artwork.
NakamuraIf you ask me, that may be true.
KagaemiWe have a lightness of touch with our artwork. We don't think in terms of "what is art," but just paint because we want to! We just paint because we want to! If you are conscious of art, you might regret it later, like "I should have done this," but with us, there are no regrets.
NakamuraSometimes there are people who pretend that they do things without thinking. In fact, they put a lot of thought into their work.
KagaemiOh, there they are! There he is!
NakamuraI think that kind of thing is not natural. In that sense, the way of taking a pause may be a pretty obvious thing to do.
KagaemiWe each have a different style and a different production method, but the way we are seen is probably the same. We are not too big-headed, and it's easy to understand. If you are too conscious of art, you tend to want to show what is inside the work rather than the work itself.
You are talking about the background of the work, or the story element.
flatlandAnd then there's what I've been studying.
KagaemiI agree. Art is all about freedom of thought, and if you think too rigidly, you will not come up with good ideas. It is not that we do not think about anything at all, but we try to be flexible.
NakamuraPeople with imagination may have a good sense of pause. They can imagine the distance between them and the other person, their own work, and the exhibition that will follow. However, if you are tied down by something and your attention is focused on that, it will all fall apart at once.
KagaemiOverthinking is still a bad idea. I had a chance to talk with a girl who went to a famous art college overseas, and she told me that the atmosphere there was not easy because it was full of highly conscious students. She said that she thought she would not be able to produce good work in such an environment, so she went back to her parents' house and worked at her own pace, and naturally produced good work.
It means that each person has a different environment that suits him or her. By the way, are all three of you art school graduates?
KagaemiI'm not.
NakamuraI do the same.
flatlandI did not go to art school, although I did have a design degree.
KagaemiThe three of us have nothing to do with academic art (laughs). (laughs) "Good painting" and "individuality" are two different things, and we are of the school that values individuality.
He said that he respects originality, not technology.
NakamuraDoctors, for example, need to be skilled. But artists, on the other hand, are in a sense irresponsible because they deal with their customers through their artwork. In a sense, it is an irresponsible profession.
flatlandThat's true! I can totally relate to that.
NakamuraDo you create your own place where the world can enjoy your work, or do you go to a different place? Even among artists, there may be different ways of finding a space.
After all, these members fit in between (laughs).
Now, I would like to summarize the "pause" in our discussion.
KagaemiIn short, it is no good to be conscious of trying to improve your spacing (laughs). (Laughs) In the end, it is something you are born with, so I think it is important to view it as individuality. If doing pushups five times a day would improve the spacing, everyone would do it.
NakamuraThe other thing is that there is a chemistry between the two. Even if one side thinks it's bad, the other side doesn't necessarily think it's bad. There are some things that just don't fit.
KagaemiThen there is backbone. Rather than just being good at drawing, I think a person's background of being influenced by not only art but also comedy, movies, and many other things will be reflected in their work. So, I feel that not only valuing one's own individuality, but also having a lot of input and knowing what one likes and what one doesn't like can lead to having good spacing.
That way we can be flexible.
KagaemiBeing good at drawing is not art. Baseball players need to learn technique, but art is not about that. I think that's why we get along so well. Also, we are close in age (laughs).
flatlandI feel most comfortable with these members because they are in sync with each other (laughs).
