The audience is nothing but a mystery.
. Today, I would like to talk with Mr. Sogabe and Mr. Oshita, two Carax fans of different generations, about how they saw the new "Annette". First of all, which is your favorite Carax film?
Sogabe:. "Dirty Blood" is a traumatic work from my adolescence, so I can't really put it in the same category as the others. I think "Holy Motors" is probably my favorite film that I have seen as an adult.
Big Bottom:I also like "Holy Motors" the best. It was the first time for me to see a work that was structured like a play, and it was a great shock to me. It made me think about "acting" in a way that I had never thought about before.
Did you first encounter Carax's works after you started working as an actor?
Big Bottom:The first film I saw was "The Lover of the Pont Neuf" when I was in high school, and all the other films I saw were after I became an actor. After seeing "Annette" this time, I thought "Holy Motors" was the closest to it.
Sogabe:Close . . close, but I think I prefer "Holy Motors". Annette" lacks a little bit of Carax for me. If Carax is a musician, "Annette" feels a bit like a cover album.
Big Bottom:I liked "Annette" , a lot.
Sogabe:Me, I kinda didn't know how to watch it. So please tell me what makes "Annette" so appealing today (laughs).
Big Bottom:. It's like a direct stimulation of the brain. When you are watching a movie with an expectation of what will happen next, the development of the story, the images, the music, and everything else exceeds your expectations. Everything is fast.
Sogabe:Ah , I see.
Big Bottom:I think "Annette" is a film that does something very new. The perspective changes on about four levels within a single film. I also felt this when I saw "Holy Motors," and I was very pleasantly surprised by the metafictional way in which the viewpoints entered my mind.
Sogabe:Like you ingested some kind of stimulant?
Big Bottom:. yes, I do. Also, the irony in this story is something that I feel quite sympathetic to. I think one of the themes of this piece is the relationship between "the viewer" and "the seen. The relationship between the performer and the audience changes over the course of the work.
Sogabe:. the presence of an "audience" was also symbolized in "Holy Motors," wasn't it?
Big Bottom:Yes . This time, it is more extreme. It's as if the stand-up comedian played by Adam Driver suddenly throws the issue to you, the "audience".
Sogabe:The scene with the main character reminded me a bit of Tom Cruise's role in "Magnolia" (Paul Thomas Anderson) as the head of a self-help seminar. He was in control of the audience's minds until about halfway through, when he let his ego get the better of him and the audience started to lose interest.
Big Bottom:Oh, yes, indeed .
Sogabe:I'm sure the fact that the customers are clearly a certain type of clientele, namely all non-liberal American whites who remind me of Trump supporters, must be some kind of message.
I think this is related to the question you once asked Carax directly. I was there myself.
Sogabe:Oh, you were there at that time (laughs).
Big Bottom:When was this?
Before the release of "Holy Motors," there was a screening at Eurospace in Shibuya with Carax himself on the stage.
Sogabe:I was in the front row watching the show, and I raised my hand and asked a question, thinking that if I missed this opportunity, I would never get to talk to Karacz. I raised my hand and asked a question, and the MC pointed to me and said, "Yes, the man in the front row, the one in the middle.
I thought, "Oh, it's Mr. Sogabe" (laughs).
Big Bottom:What questions did you ask?
Sogabe:Holy Motors" begins with a scene where the director is walking his dog toward a screen that does not show what is on, right? . and everyone in the audience is asleep. When I saw that scene, I thought that for Carax, the audience must be very distant and difficult to understand. So I asked him, "What does the audience mean to you? I asked him.
Big Bottom:And what did Carax answer?
Sogabe:. I am not conscious of the audience at all when I make films. I have no idea what an audience is or what kind of existence it is. They are a mystery to me. All I know is that they are a certain group of people who are destined to die.
Big Bottom:Oh oh oh (laughs).
That question was the best question of the day (laughs).
Sogabe:Until "Paula X," Carax was completely immersed in the work, and the audience was completely outside the work, wasn't it? But with "Holy Motors," the audience is now also depicted in the work in such a way. So, I wanted to know why.
You could say that the audience in "Annette" is an extension of that.
Sogabe:. But this time, it is more clearly the world vs. myself. . and in between, there is the existence of a child who is related to me. . and there are also depictions of the #MeToo movement.
Big Bottom:You described that area in an easy-to-understand manner.
Sogabe:. yes. So I thought it was a little bit more social. . but that's not what I'm looking for in Carax's work (laughs).
Mr. Sogabe asked Carax, "What kind of person is the audience? What would you say if you were to ask yourself the same question that Mr. Sogabe asked Karacz?
Sogabe:There is a saying, "The customer is God," and I am that.
Wow. That's great that you can say that.
Sogabe:. because, in fact, I do. . because there are customers, I am able to do my music.
. If we compare Carax and Mr. Sogabe, it is also a good contrast to say that he is a very oligopoly artist and a very prolific one.
Sogabe:But they are actually connected somehow. My best customer and my best fan is myself. When I create something, I always do it in dialogue with myself, the most important customer. If I were a fan, I would think about what kind of activities I would like to see this person do.
Big Bottom:I see.
Sogabe:. I think the result of that is the current pace, which in the case of Carax is like one every 10 years.
